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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.25 12:51:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Wolverine PL
I have very crazy idea:) Lets change local chat as it is. make it like alliance chat, you apear after you type something. That way you have to use scanner to see who is in local. That way game will be much more interesting. No more XXX in local, everyone DOCK!!! as soon you jump to system:(
And your detailed reasoning of why it is necessary to rip our core gameplay is?
It's not interesting for GriefPK's to be invisible, for space to be empty and boring with no sign of anyone, for people to people to rely on spys to find each other, for blobwars to be slower for... 101 different issues, all of which need to be addressed before you can consider it.
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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:50:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Maero
I think the idea is for the scanner to play a bigger part coupled with a more realistic warning system instead of just a 'local' chat-like channel.
That wasn't stated and so wasn't part of the idea.
Ellaine, it's wildly over-rated how useful that will be, unless you're proposing that fleets pack a POS along. Certainly it'll reinforce static blobwars.
A "delay" is purely a grief-ganker tool, and would serve them well.
Reggie, again, not only was it not part of the op's suggestion, but having to hammer the scanner every 3 seconds will quickly get old. Moreeover, if you can get a count from a "crude" scan, that's ALL you need to know to log.
"The most powerful info the local channel gives is the corp and alliance of the pilots present. Should the scanner be able to report that?"
Shouldn't nerf local in the first place if you don't want to turn Eve into a faceless grey dangerzone, shrug.
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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:56:00 -
[3]
Yes, lots of people want to make it utterly inpossible to hide from alliances, to be able to find targets from systems away....
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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.26 12:33:00 -
[4]
Jack Amarr, yea, solid as in "enter 0.0 and die".
Freyda, tactics yes. But local isn't tactical, it's strategic.
A MINUTE? I can check 2-3 belts in an interceptor in that time.
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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.26 13:14:00 -
[5]
Freyda, most games are not Eve, they're FAR smaller and don't have meaningful PvP.
Shadowbane is the ONLY MMO equivalent, and there were ways to sense people in the same zone with track in that, as well as scouts flying and so on.
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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.26 17:50:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
Just let players close local.
i.e. the very first advice a player will EVER get is "close local", and that's it. It's a simple remove local forever from everywhere idea, and has all the flaws.
You'd have to be downright stupid to use local under your system. You reveal yourself for zero return, because the only people in itwill be the odd disposable scout alt looking for people that silly.
Where are the discussions of how to handle the consequences? That is what needs to be laid out, in full, with compensation or reasons not to, saying "kill local now and forever" is easy.
It's also easy to list what will happen with the current mechanisms: ganks by cloaked recons everywhere, fleet warfare gets even more static and boring, GriefPK's can't be seen and gank far more, 0.0/lowsec gets abandoned in drones, Eve becomes a grey faceless riskland, people stop mining and NPCing because hitting the scanner every 3 seconds is boring, etc.
We allready HAVE scouts (the map LIES).
We allready HAVE decoys ("hey, there's a scout here")
And "normal local chat" per your system is "silence, forever".
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.07.27 02:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Freyda
The thing is I don't think anyone here want's local to be gone 100%
Freyda, I'd suggest you re-read then. If people don't offer an alternative, that's all we can do - if it not typed, it dosn't exist as a balance idea.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.07.27 13:00:00 -
[8]
Cloaked ships not showing in local is a PURE griefPK idea designed to allow easy ganks.
And no, 0.0 wars are allready boring and static, REQUIRING spys on both sides to detail the fleets before any engagements happen is not an advance.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.07.27 17:36:00 -
[9]
Digiblast, I'm discussing a no-local situation.
You don't know the covert's there. Moreover, you can't tell what ANYONE's in unless they're within scan range.
And no, I can't imagine the traps because they wouldn't be there. Anything of any value won't be moved that way because of the risks.
Systems like Amamake become utter deadzones. It's not WORTH traveling through there unless you're in a combat ship blob. Better to go 30 jumps more.
"But I guess you are the carebear type of a guy"
Ahaha. I'm a PvPer, primarily.
Wild Rho, and what is that defence? Oh, there is no. It's IMPOSSIBLE to defend mining ships against attackers. Hence, NO mining ops outside the outpost systems with ships on each gates. Yea.
Ellaine, gate camping becomes FAR more critically important without local. Morover, you need people on it 23/7, because it's the only real way to keep raiders our of your space.
POS systems are drastically overrated for what people think they will do, and "active radar" will need to be a zero-cost option for every ship, or you end up with gangs being forced into set roles - if it's only a cruiser module, for example, the wolfpack is stone cold DEAD.
Local is all that permits a civilian 0.0 population AT ALL.
Master OlavPancrazio, so it basically macro's the refesh for you. Right. And instead of USEFUL imformation it shows blips when it's time to log because that could be anything. Right.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.07.27 18:40:00 -
[10]
There are resonable predictions which can be made from the avaliable data. I'm using examples, and pointing to situations in other games. That's the key.
"I'm sure" dosn't cut it for core gameplay and a system which, mishandled, could kill Eve.
There is NO way to defend a fragile ship. Before your remote modules can active, it's DEAD. A T1 frigate gang could take out MANY times its numbers unless your entire fleet is sitting there and lags them out so much that you can kill them as they warp in. Won't get much mining done in that lag, mind you.
And you're ASKING for forced 23/7 gatecamps, far more static warfare, the death of the scout in favour of the spy, and so on. Great. I don't.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.07.27 20:44:00 -
[11]
Digiblast, the chat function is incidental. There are equivalents to the data gathering in most games where it matters, even Shadowbane has the track skill and flying lookouts and so on.
"Alliance tourny" ... Is not REMOTELY like normal PvP. The restrictions and limits make the results only relevant to itself. And those are still PvP ships, with resistances and toughness far above those of the industralists's ships.
You asked for something, and there are implications of it. The requirement to camp is one of those....you cannot realistically use the space without a HARD block on people enteirng it with no local, otherwise your industrialists will die. A lot.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.07.27 21:38:00 -
[12]
The scanner needs refreshing every *3* seconds. No other game does that, it autoupdates or has a far longer effective range.
And yes, you leave that as the ONLY other alternative - scouts and an immediate log. Is that what you want to encourage? That you'll NEVER be able to kill them? Because that's what you're talking about..if you force it, and it's a pain, then that's what they WILL do.
And there is no "maybe" on that, it's as hard and cold as it gets.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.07.27 22:38:00 -
[13]
No, nerfing local and making the scanner a grind isn't positive. The UI in general is a mess and needs drastic improvement. It's probably the weakest single point Eve has, now.
And no, the miners will never die. They'll log..you'll never as much as scan them.
And you need to look at other games and especially MUD's, and learn their lessons.
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